Interview with Naila Hamayed, Givaudan Evaluator

by: Serguey Borisov

My visit to the Givaudan offices in Paris was not the first for me, but was definitely the visit most filled with information and impressions. We made a lot of different meetings both short and long at avenue Kleber, and here is the interview with one of the most secret of perfume professionals: the evaluator. Energetic and smiling Givaudan evaluator, Naila Hamayed, has worked in the company for 15 years and believes that her job is to be hidden under the perfumers' successes.

Sergey Borisov: On your business card your occupation is named as "Creative Fragrance Director, Fine Fragrances Evaluation." So you are the super-creative director?

Naila Hamayed: It means I have been working here for a long time—15 years. (I am called a Givaudan baby evaluator, and everyone has to grow!) There are currently five fragrance directors on the team, and we each handle one of the biggest client accounts (Puig, P&G, L’Oréal, Coty etc.) We’re Directors because we manage teams of two to three people focused on day-to-day business projects.

Sergey Borisov: So the evaluators keep an eye on big corporations, not small niche brands?

Naila Hamayed: No, every evaluator works on a variety of brands, both corporate and niche. For example, I am working for different clients like Diptyque and Yves Rocher.  When you work with a Perfumer, you try to develop and create the best fragrance for each client, regardless of who they are.

Sergey Borisov: So you five are the best communicators of the company, I think? It`s not easy to get what's inside the client's heads?

Naila Hamayed: It’s a strong team effort between the sales person, the perfumer and the evaluator (imagine a triangle with the client at its heart), but I’m more of an olfactive expert than the sales person. My first role is to work with a perfumer, whereas the sales person’s role is to work with his/her clients.

Sergey Borisov: Do you work with perfumers in couples, like the perfumer and his/her assistant?

Naila Hamayed: Depending on the project you are being briefed on, you will work with different perfumers.

Sergey Borisov: Like  Daniela Andrier is very good with her Prada perfumes?

Naila Hamayed: Yes, this is a good example.

Sergey Borisov: So if Prada would like to launch a new perfume, you will most likely bring the project to her?

Naila Hamayed: Exactly.  Some perfumers, like Daniela, perfectly understand the DNA of certain brands.   What makes the most interesting and enriching part of my evaluation job is to work with many different personalities, in front of whom you always have to address your evaluation comments…and there's also a psychological part ...

Sergey Borisov: Do you use Neuro-Linguistic Programming and all that?

Naila Hamayed: [laughing] No, not at all!!!

Sergey Borisov: I mean NLP is just a technology that allows you to know the patterns that work in the head of a person you communicate with.  Like, to know visual, audial and kinaesthetic patterns—so you can talk with them in their own "languages."

Naila Hamayed: Well, I certainly use those “techniques” without being truly aware of it! I know their personalities really well. Working with some Perfumers, I could say, "Ah, that’s really awful!" because they have an easy, humorous way of communicating.  Others might be offended by this kind of familiarity. So I always need to adjust my messages when I interact with them.

Sergey Borisov: What was your education to have a job of evaluator?

Naila Hamayed: In France, there are few ways to get into the Perfumery industry. One of the most famous is ISIPCA. So, first I did my university degree in chemistry, just to be able to pass the exams to enter ISIPCA. During these two years of education, you work for a company (two months here, two months there) and this is how you really learn "the metier." For me, evaluation is not a matter of standard learning, it's a kind of coaching and being coached, like a tutor and a young talent.  This is how you really understand what evaluation means.

Sergey Borisov: What are your coaches’ names?

Naila Hamayed: I learned a lot from Camille Lethu, and Anne Bouvelle. Now, it is my turn to pass on my experience and passion to young and gifted evaluators.  

Sergey Borisov: Are there any differences between making some mass-market fragrances (15-30 euro per bottle) and some luxury (above 70 euro) perfumes?

Naila Hamayed: There is no real hierarchy between luxury products and wide appeal products. When developing a fragrance, you don't take into consideration the price it will be sold for at the end of the day. Developing a fragrance is a passion. Our passion is to create something from scratch and build it together to please the clients and ultimately, the customers.  I love to work for wide appeal brands, as it's always challenging to deal with cost constraints while providing quality.

Sergey Borisov: Because it should be mass-popular!

Naila Hamayed: It’s a pleasure to work for brands such as Yves Rocher, Diptyque and Paco Rabanne.  They are very beautiful yet different brands and we use our olfactive expertise to bring creative new scents for each one.  

Sergey Borisov: Do you always make your perfumes from the scratch or are there some bases or prepared prefab compositions? We're just out of the basement where I’ve seen the Givaudan perfumers' libraries... probably you as evaluator should know most of them?

Naila Hamayed: It’s important for us to know the collection of each perfumer. Similar to the fashion world, you have an archive of fashion collections for each fashion designer.  Perfumers have their own collections, too!  Each evaluator has to know the best olfactive idea of each collection. This means that we will revisit some of our creations and use these ideas as a starting point.  Then, together as a team, we keep working on it and we adapt it for the brand—just like a tailor-made perfume, sur mesure.

Sergey Borisov: How many perfumes should an evaluator keep in his/her mind? And how do you memorize them?

Naila Hamayed: [Laughs] I remember them due to their great signatures. If you can identify fragrances after 5-10 years, then there's something really special in the fragrance. I wouldn’t be able to give you a number … I am called a “dinosaur,” as I am one of the oldest on the team and I also have many, many, many souvenirs in my head from the past, in my memory collection.

Sergey Borisov: Everybody knows Ernest Beaux of Chanel and Jacques Guerlain and their perfumes, Chanel №5 and Shalimar. Are there some legendary evaluators in the history as these perfumers?

Naila Hamayed: I would say no. Evaluators are like little mice. They are not aiming to be in the spotlight.  If you want the spotlight on you, you might want to consider moving out of Evaluation!

Sergey Borisov: And where would you go, then? To become a perfumer?

Naila Hamayed: Good evaluators are happy to be good evaluators. They are not frustrated perfumers!

Sergey Borisov: Do you think that Evaluator is the very important position? As you interpret the wishes of clients, make perfumers work in the right direction, telling them to stop when the perfume is perfect enough ...

Naila Hamayed: YES.  Because you have to keep so many perfume projects going on at the same time, it's nearly impossible for perfumers to manage the amount of work on their own. It's important for perfumers to feel supported and secured when they create. It's like a coaching state of mind, you help them go forward, pushing the boundaries of their creativity, and also cheering them on. "Hey, you are one of the best! Ok, the meeting with the client was challenging, but we can do it!" We have to keep the team spirit high and share the good vibes. We have to show our perfumers how much we believe in them.

Sergey Borisov: Do you know when and where the very first evaluators appeared?

Naila Hamayed: I believe the position of evaluator started a few decades ago, sometime in the 70s.  I think that the industry realized the need of having additional olfactive experts, yet different from a perfumer. Evaluators help speed the process of answering briefs and handling collections. Meanwhile, the Perfumer is focused on perfecting the fragrance. Perfumers can actively work on 10-20 projects at the same time, but they need someone to help them paint the bigger picture of the creation.  For example, the accuracy towards the client’s portfolio, the competition, in which countries the fragrance will be tested, etc. It's like having a driver, or navigator, near them, who can read the map and point the Perfumer in the right direction.

Sergey Borisov: What about the other modern tendencies, the team work? Like the case with One Million Paco Rabanne—three perfumers signed the formula. Both perfumers have to work with one evaluator. How did you manage to work it out?

Naila Hamayed: That’s a good question.  In a project that involves multiple perfumers, you, as an evaluator, have to keep the direction.  In my experience, the key to success is to keep an open line of communication with the team.  When we all meet together to choose the best trials, it’s best when the team is sincere in their remarks, open and honest, and only thinking about what’s best for the client.  There’s no room for ego when we are working on projects like these—our only goal is to win the brief.

Sergey Borisov: First, how does the team appear?

Naila Hamayed: When we receive a new brief, you have five or six perfumers working on it. Each perfumer develops their own idea.  Afterwards, I collect all the ideas and prepare a blind olfactive session with the sales person. We smell everything … and then decide on which ideas should move forward and why they are great for submission. We make this decision based on whether the ideas fit the brief and the client portfolio, and any other criteria that might matter for the client. Then I return to the perfumers and de-brief them. I tell them, which ideas were chosen to move forward. The most difficult part of the evaluation job is to be the most objective in your feedback, because you would never take into account your own personal tastes. When you criticize a creation, you have to give your objective arguments, to explain why. This is when perfumers and evaluators start to build trust. When a perfumer can see your point of view and understand your arguments, he/she will trust you and believe you. Then both can continue to evolve as a team.

Sergey Borisov: Did I get you right that the team appears when sales approves more than one perfume idea?

Naila Hamayed: As you keep developing an idea with a client, at some point, the client will make a selection of the finalists. The Perfumers are under a great amount of pressure at that moment.  As they may have other projects going on at the time, they might need some help in order to maximize our chances to win.  They may even ask another perfumer, “Would you like to work on this fragrance with me?  I think you can bring something important into my perfume.”    

Sergey Borisov: So the perfumer is the initiator of the team work, not you?

Naila Hamayed: I can suggest something or somebody, according to my memory. At some point, a perfumer can use the help of a colleague, as it's not easy to work a year alone on the same project. I have to bring some fresh air. It's always interesting when someone new is joining your project, with a new eye on it, fresh air, new energy, and everything comes alive again. Then they start working together on that project.

Sergey Borisov: But how? Is it like one is making a base woody-amber accord, and the other makes the fresh top to it?

Naila Hamayed: The art of perfumery is like two chefs collaborating in the kitchen. The first chef begins with a recipe and the second one tastes each dish, offering opinions and suggesting some modifications. Together, they continue to perfect the recipe, with each and every taste. Et voila! Everyone likes it! Both the perfumer and evaluator bring their expertise, which are the building blocks to creating the best and most sophisticated perfume.

Sergey Borisov: Tell me, what if a client would tell you that they really like the woody part of one perfume, the fruity part of the other, and the fig part of the third? Would you melt them into a 1-2-3 composition?

Naila Hamayed: Yes, definitely.  Even if we may not agree with the composition, we will always make it for the client.  This is also possible due to teamwork.

Sergey Borisov: What are your personal goals for the day, for the week, and month, and year?

Naila Hamayed: I am very optimistic, and my goal is to always provide better creative fragrances to the consumers. It’s to have the best modifications everyday, to be approved by clients! I think the consumers are much more educated than we think, and they are waiting for more novel and daring fragrances. One of the biggest challenges is the consumer tests … You have to please everybody—from Europe to China, from the US to Russia. Trying to please anyone is risking to deceive everyone … My goal is to convince clients to change their methodology of testing fragrances, and to believe more in themselves and to trust our expertise because we are the experts!

Sergey Borisov: Naila, you are so energetic! How do you keep your positive vibes?

Naila Hamayed: Thank you! [laughs] Because I’m just passionate, I love my work! I’ve been working for 15 years and I never felt in the morning like "Oh no, I have to go to the office..." NO! I am always happy waking up, "Hurray! I’m going to my loving office!" Everyday is a new challenge and this is a new day! (laughs) I love to work with perfumers, that’s all!

Sergey Borisov: What about your sports or vitamins?

Naila Hamayed: My kids are my vitamins! And my husband! [laughs] Actually, Givaudan is not a company, it's a home ... I love it.

Sergey Borisov: Could you tell Fragrantica readers what will be the next perfume projects we'll see on shelves soon?

Naila Hamayed: It’s a surprise!

Sergey Borisov: How do you find the moment when you say, "Ok, now the perfume is perfect!"

Naila Hamayed: Oh, never. [laughs] Because you cannot stop refining. It can always be better. When the clients say "Go!" that's when we stop.

Sergey Borisov: It's the one and only way to stop?

Naila Hamayed: Yes. But pn a day-to-day basis, I`m one of those evaluators who would stop the team and have a rest, and let the fragrance macerate. It’s important to let the fragrance idea mature. We need to leave the fragrance sometimes, before starting to discuss it. The best fragrances will be the ones you took time to create.

Sergey Borisov: Should the slogan for the interview be "Let a thousand flowers bloom"? As you make all fragrances: cheap and expensive, luxurious and mass-market, fast and slow ...

Naila Hamayed: I love that tag-line! [laughs]